#042 – Marathon runner and Marketer, Bob Cargill, shares his experiences from running over 400 races (including the Boston Marathon). Bob talks about the joy he has received from running and the qualities that carry over into other parts of a runner’s life.
How running positively impacts other areas of your life
Not letting fear of getting injured stop you
Interesting races runners should check out
Building friendships through the running community
Bob, who was the New England Direct Marketing Association’s Direct Marketer of the Year in 2009, is an adjunct professor, a copywriter, content creator, social media consultant, and public speaker who has worked for some 500 or so different clients over the years.
His work has been recognized with over 40 awards from the New England Direct Marketing Association, including Gold for his blog on marketing, Gold for Best Tweets, Silver for Best Copywriting, and two Silvers for his video series about social media on LinkedIn.
Bob is a past president of both the American Marketing Association Boston (2018-2020) and the New England Direct Marketing Association (1999-2000). In addition to hosting his own podcast on marketing and recording YouTube videos about social media on a weekly basis, Bob is keeping especially busy these days writing a book on his career so far, tentatively titled, “20 Jobs, 20 Lessons.”
Welcome to Episode 42. I’m excited about our guest today, as he has an amazing running career. He’s run hundreds of races, and will share with us his experiences during those races and how running has helped him in different areas of his life. Hope you enjoy. Here’s what you can look forward to on this episode of Inspire Virtual Runs Podcast.
Bob Cargill 0:25
like anyone athletic frankly, in anyone strong mentally or physically but runners specifically, the quality is that you know, we don’t give up we finish the race we we run through pain, and it’s also very independent. It’s it’s self motivated. It’s not like, I don’t have anyone telling me to go out and run I do it on my own every day almost, you know for, you know, we’re talking almost 50 years. It’s crazy when I think about it.
Welcome to Inspire Virtual Runs Podcast, whether you are new to running or seasoned, get tips in the inspiration that you need to achieve your health and fitness goals. Now, here’s your host Richard Conner.
Richard Conner 1:13
Hi, everyone. Welcome to Inspire Virtual Runs Podcast. Today we have Bob Cargill. Bob is an adjunct professor, a copywriter, content creator, social media consultant, and a public speaker who has worked for some 500 or so different clients over the years. Bob is a past president of both the American Marketing Association Boston, and the New England Direct Marketing Association. In addition to hosting his own podcast on marketing, and recording YouTube videos and social media on a weekly basis. Bob is keeping especially busy these days writing a book on his career so far, tentatively titled 20 jobs 20 lessons. Welcome to the show Bob.
Bob Cargill 1:59
Thank you, Richard. So delighted and honored to be here. Hi, everybody.
Richard Conner 2:04
It’s really great to have you here. And you know, to kick things off, I just want to share with the listeners a quick story. A good friend of mine had asked me, Richard, how do you find your guests, and a lot of my guests come through the running community. But I have some unique connections that I’ve made over the last couple of years. And my connection with Bob is one of those. So actually, Bob and I both volunteer and serve for the American Marketing Association. I started following Bob this past year, and then was delighted to learn that he’s a fellow runner. And he has such an amazing running career. He’s completed over 350 road races, from 5K’s to marathons. And I’m like, you know, I just got to have Bob on the show. So here we are.
Bob Cargill 2:51
Yeah Richard, thank you so much. And you said that 350, you know, literally, because we’re going to talk today about running, I looked at my page on my blog that has my running history, if you will. And I think I have to increase that number to 400, maybe even 450. That was I run a bunch of races every year. So that number keeps going up and up.
Richard Conner 3:14
Oh, that’s amazing. I love your posts, very inspirational, post it, whether it’s about marketing or running. So again, just excited to be here and talk about some of those 400 plus races. So yeah, let’s, let’s get into it. So you know, typically, like I like to start the conversation with just learning a little bit about your running journey. I know you started your running career pretty early in life, I think and maybe in high school, so maybe tell us a little bit about that.
Bob Cargill 3:42
Yeah, absolutely. Richard, I also told you before we you press record, I said you couldn’t have picked a easier, more enjoyable topic than then running because it’s in my blood. It’s something I’ve been doing almost forever in terms of my life. I actually so yeah, publicly yo in writing, say on my blog, I said I started in high school. But I actually started earlier than that I and I do have a story somewhere on YouTube and a video where I talked about my dad teaching me to run when when I was I used this old school expression knee high to a grasshopper, meaning I was very small, very short. And he would bring me my brother and my sister running on the back streets of the town in which I grew up, Franklin. And he had a stopwatch or maybe it’s just his wristwatch, but he would time us when I was a little kid. And that’s how, you know I first started running but yeah, officially, if you will, it was in high school. I joined the track team and cross country and and haven’t looked back, no pun intended, you know, running my whole life and I love running it’s in my blood. It’s something I do almost every day now. And And whereas I used to do it every other day. I have a little more time these last few years and it’s just something that I’m So glad I am still able to do physically because it helps me both physically, certainly, and emotionally. Especially.
Richard Conner 5:10
Thank you for sharing that. And I completely agree with you. You know, it’s interesting what you say about, you know, the physical and emotional elements of it. And, you know, sometimes folks will say, Well, you know, me running may not be good for your knees, or there may be challenges with that, you know, just kind of jumping in Have you have you experienced any kind of those challenges? Or is that just things people say, I guess make up obstacles of why they wouldn’t run long term?
Bob Cargill 5:40
No, great question. You know, and I alluded to it you know, that I’m so grateful that you know, it my age 63 And I can still run competitively run all these races and marathons and and such long distances repeatedly. But I have had my aches and pains I have had my injuries not even a question and and as I get older, the the joints the knees, the hips, the ankles, the back, my wife will always joke you know, what, what party a party, if not every party have already hurts today. But yeah, fortunately, nothing nothing serious. But, you know, I’ve had in do have what they call, you know, runners knees, where I think I’m losing some cartilage, if you will, risking bone, on bone, on the knees, but they are holding up. I mean, I that started, Geez, 10-15 years ago, and I thought it would get more severe, be more severe by now. But now my knees are holding up, I think my hips, you know, I feel more and more achy joints in the hip, trunk area, but nothing serious. And I feel so lucky. I run these races, they have, you know, age groups. And I notice and and certainly talk to others my age that, you know, as I get older, the the, you know, that the age groups then out if you will, because I know what’s happening, people either saying I can’t do this anymore, or, or, you know, for whatever reason, but a lot of times, it’s just, you know, injury and health and so yeah, I feel blessed, I feel lucky. And I tell people, I’m going to go until I can’t any longer. And you know, whether that’s you know, surgery or, or what have you, but I think the longer I wait to the way medicine and healthcare is going I’ll be back up and running quickly after any, any surgery, if I do need any, like on the hips and knees, but now you know, I’m blessed, I get great lungs, I never really get tired. When I run, it’s, you know, I think the biggest challenges is sometimes mental, the the the monotony, if you will, especially training for a marathon, and, and running in all kinds of weather. You know, I’m here in New England, right outside of Boston, and, you know, I I run year round. And so I have to deal with the elements. There’s many challenges, but But I’m so used to it, it’s part of my my life, you know, it’s part of my routine.
Richard Conner 8:12
That’s great. And, you know, from your, from what you shared, it really sounds like you receive a lot more benefits from running than maybe some of the challenges that you’ve had to overcome whether it was physical or otherwise. You know, let’s talk a little bit about that. I know you have a great philosophy, about running and about what you do and wanting to continue it as long as possible. But, you know, kind of what are some of those benefits that you’ve experienced from running?
Bob Cargill 8:40
Yeah, not even a question. There is such thing as runner’s high, and I experienced it, absolutely. But only if I do the longer distance it probably kicks in. You know, I’m thinking 678 Definitely 10 Plus, so when I’m training for a marathon, you know, I feel it, and I feel it afterwards. And that’s endorphins. You know, I’m not a doctor or a scientist, but it’s some kind of chemical release. And I feel it. And so I love that, um, I run. And I know this because I use my Garmin and measured pretty accurately about 4.4 miles a day on average. So yeah, so you know, it’s in other words, anywhere from three to five, but you know, there are times on the weekend. It’s 10 Plus, so it again, it averages out to about 4.4 a day, the last few years. This last year specifically on those shorter mileage runs, say three, four or five. Yeah, I don’t really feel that total run is high, but I still feel good about myself. And a day like today for instance, it’s raining out it’s cold. It could be snowing this time of year in the Boston area January five as we’re recording, but I’ll go out and run later on. After having been cooped up Up in the house looking out it wet in dark weather. I know I’ll feel better after running, you know whether it’s literally runner’s high or just mentally Hey, I get out and did something today. Got my 10,000 steps, if you will. Yeah, I’m kind of addicted to it in that sense. And, you know, that could be it to, frankly, I know. You know, we do get addicted to it. Some of us who are serious, really active on running, walking, whatever biking, me it’s running. I don’t feel totally good about myself unless I’ve gotten out there running that’s plain and simple. And in my mind, in my doctor’s you know, the benefits outweigh any any pain aches, potential surgery down the road, my doctor tells me all the time, just keep doing it. You know, it’s so good for your heart, so good for you emotionally. And probably these aches and pains. I would have anyways, you know what I’m saying? So why not have the aches and pains as a result of having run, you know, 20 marathons and, you know, 400 races and counting versus, you know, just sitting on the couch. So, I love running, I’m sure you sense that?
Richard Conner 11:11
I do. I certainly do watching. And that’s great. And that’s, you know, that’s what we’re looking for on the show, right to inspire the community to either start running as part of their fitness journey or, you know, stay motivated and continue running. And I can certainly relate with a lot of what you said, I haven’t run 400 races. So that’s spectacular that you that you’ve done that. But I can certainly relate to some of what you’re talking about in terms of how you’re feeling when you’re running, the longer distances and how you’re feeling when you’re not running. I can share a personal story, mid to late last calendar year, I wasn’t as consistent as I had been, you know, I think a lot of things just came my way and I deprioritize fitness and running. And I got to the point I was, I remember, I was lamenting one day, that I lost kind of that work life balance. And a lot of it had to do with the fact that I wasn’t running, I didn’t feel like I had the time, or could really, you know, focus on running. And that was impacting both sides, right, personal and professional life. And I kind of had to get that back. So certainly can relate, you know, to what you just shared there.
Bob Cargill 12:19
Yeah, Richard, I see you on social media, and you’re running posts, and I know you’re out there regularly, like myself, I mean, each of our journeys are going to be unique and different. But you know, I’ve run all these races, because I’m a lot older than you, when you’re, when you’re my age, you’ll have run this many races, my guess. But, you know, I’ve also been running, you know, belong to a running club for a long time. And I’ve made a habit of entering races almost once a month, on average, you know, for, for, I don’t know, 30 or so years, you know, my, my adult life or, you know, mid mid years up until now, um, you know, the last 30 years or so, I’ve been running, you know, an average of probably one race a year. So, you know, you do the math, I think I think I’m right in approximating at around 400 could be more if I count all the way back into high school days, and, but I’m thinking of the five K’s, the 10, KS, the half marathons, the marathons, and I do have stats, I keep folders with running stats, I keep my numbers, they’re all stored away up in the attic. And I have a webpage on my blog with all my best times and, you know, I try to chronicle it is accurately as possible. It’s important to me, and I’m proud of it in thankful that’s the biggest thing. I’m thankful for running.
Richard Conner 13:42
Awesome, awesome. Well, you should be very proud of your running career, we’re going to get a little bit more into that love to hear a little bit about your journey. But, you know, before we leave this topic, you talked about a lot of the benefits of running, whether you know, physical or mental. And I know when we talked in preparation for this conversation about how this could possibly carry over into other parts of your life. And I’d love to hear more about that. Like, what are your What are your thoughts on that?
Bob Cargill 14:12
Yeah, I equate almost anything I do, and frankly what other people do to to running and you know, it’s one step at a time. If it’s, you know, thinking of the marathon analogy that’s like life itself that’s like any big challenge and I think I said to you offline and you know employers should really take note in my mind, like anyone athletic frankly, in anyone strong mentally or physically but run is specifically the quality is that you know, we don’t give up we finished the race we we run through pain, and it’s also very independent. It’s it’s self motivated. It’s not like I don’t have anyone telling me to go out and run I do it on my own every day almost, you know for You know, we’re talking almost 50 years, it’s crazy when I think about it, I know all the people, we get some people in my running club, one that that’s over 90 years old. And he’s he’s still out there occasionally running, we have a race in his name. So, so I’m not going to give myself a huge pat on the back. You can give me a little pat on the back, I’ll take it. But but, you know, I’m just an example of someone who is able to run regularly, and has realized the benefits. And yes, it carries over into everything I do. Because it makes you mentally tougher, I feel and impatient. If you can tell high energy, I don’t sit still, for long. And that means mentally, to my mind, can can race, no pun intended. So you know, running going out, you know, like today and run an hour and I don’t use earbuds I hardly ever listen to music. When I run on podcasts, I listen to nature and the cars whizzing by so I can pay attention. And, again, monotony is my biggest challenge, you know, how do I occupy my mind? So it’s taught me, to be honest, I probably it’s probably akin to meditation, and I never could picture me sitting down doing nothing for an hour. But running in is almost like that, for me, I get into a zone. And I’m just running and running, you know, and it’s like 10,000 steps, you know, approximately five miles. And, you know, that’s a lot of time to be alone doing nothing. But that’s why I try to run in interesting places, you know, the woods or explore town run down streets. I haven’t run before running, whether I haven’t run before. So So yeah, it plays a big part in who I am. And I would think any other runner would would somewhat agree, if not agree strongly.
Richard Conner 16:45
Definitely, definitely agree. And I like what you said about employers need to consider those candidates who are runners I love never thought of that before, but I love that because the qualities of a runner really are going to show up in other areas of their life. You know, that kind of self motivation, that dedication? Not, you know, not quitting. I love that. That’s really great.
Bob Cargill 17:09
Yeah, not to mention runners are all nice people,
Richard Conner 17:11
right? That’s right. That’s absolutely right. So let’s let’s, let’s switch gears a little bit. So thank you for sharing that. Let’s switch gears a little bit and talk about your races. You have many, many races, we obviously won’t have time to talk about each and every one of them. But I’d love to hear maybe like what are your most interesting races and why?
Bob Cargill 17:36
The races that I’ve run the most. The Falmouth road race in on Cape Cod, you know, I did that 15 times. I think the last time is 2004. I did it a lot in the 80s and 90s. And fantastic race and I believe it’s an Aug, seven point something seven, seven miles and change and you know, proximately 10,000 runners always hot. Just a great race Falmouth, road race, extremely memorable, and proud to have run that so many times. New Bedford half marathon have done that about 10 times. And that’s one of the I hear, you know, critically acclaimed half marathons in this country. And it’s in March. And I love that it’s often a lead up, if you will, to the Boston Marathon, which, you know, I’ve done a bunch of times, I’ve run Boston 14 times for charity on so that’s official, and I’ve run it three other times. Back in the day, when as a bandit, they literally call the runners who run without a number of bandit i don’t think how the any one does that anymore, but back in the day, it was a thing. And so I got 14 official Boston marathons and three as abandoned for a total of 17. Obviously, that’s a huge one for me. And if I can talk about the 2013 Well, 2000 Yeah, 2013 marathon, that was the year I want to make sure I’m correct. When the bombing occurred, and I was in that race. And, you know, I have to obviously put that up. One of the most memorable and in a sad, you know, horrible way that I was in a marathon running a good time and stopped with with hundreds of other runners about a mile from the finish. And, you know, we didn’t know what had happened. But we quickly learned that, you know, there were bombs that went off at the finish line. And, and, you know, I’ll never forget all of what happened that day. And, you know, I grieve for those who lost their lives, those who are hurt. Seriously, some were very hurt. Seriously lost limbs. And, you know, terrible it was terrorism. We all know the story. There was a movie about it. But I was in a race and stopped about a mile from the finish and we didn’t know how to get home where to go. You know what was going on? We’re afraid everyone thought we’re under attack. But yeah, the 2013 Boston Marathon and how the BAA Boston Athletic Association handled that with such class, they literally counted. Our times as official, even though we were stopped. You know, before we finish, they approximated what our finishing time was they gave us an official finishing certificate. You know, I remember going in to pick up my metal at the VA offices afterwards, you know, week or two later, they made us feel good about ourselves during such a tough, tough time how they handled that. And in the marathon, the year after I ran in 2014. And every you know, I’ve run a bunch as you know, I’ve run the marathon the last five years now to including a virtual version of it was at 2020 20. And I ran it this fall and 2021. It goes on and on, they blur together. How can I not mention vague How can I Yeah, include in most memorable race is the Washington Road Race, it, you know, might not be that well known. But if you ever get a chance to get after it, it’s a crazy race. When I did, I’ve done it three times. I think the last time was 15 years ago or so. I get pictures somewhere on the back wall here, you might see some running pictures. In fact, if I can do it, right with my finger, yeah, that’s my Washington right there, I believe. But somewhere I got pictures of me finishing it. I did it three times. And it’s the tallest peak in New England. And the times I did it, I believe was limited to 1000 runners. And it’s straight up my Washington. Crazy race, you know, you’re not running that fast stuff. Obviously, you’re just grinding it out. And it gets cold at the top. You know, it’s it’s in June, as I recall, I don’t know if I’ll ever do it again. But that’s got to be up there with, you know, most memorable races, the Mount Washington Road Race.
Richard Conner 22:05
No, those are great. I really appreciate you sharing all those. And I myself, I’m always looking for interesting races to run. You know, I’m not ready yet for a marathon. But any interesting half marathons or anything else I’m always on the lookout for for those. And one thing that you mentioned, which I didn’t quite realize was that Boston marathon that year of the bombing, I did not realize that you had run that race, and I appreciate you sharing that story. I had not even thought about it for quite some time. I’m thinking I was on business travel, I think at the time that that happened. But I personally have never experienced anything like that. I’m sure that was, you know, that was just pretty strange. And that those
Bob Cargill 22:47
of us live in, in Boston, you know, I’m in Sudbury, about half an hour outside of Boston, it was extremely emotional and still is, you know, it had, you know, literally close to home. So it affected the running community, the Boston Marathon community, but just everybody who lived around here. I mean, it was terrorism. And, you know, we didn’t know what was going to happen, you know, you know, in our own house here and Sudbury we are afraid, you know, the terrorists were not caught for a period of days. So that whole week, I’ll never forget, I wrote a blog post about it that still up on my blog, and also that blog post appeared as an article in our local newspaper, I have a picture I took I had my phone, you know, in took a picture. And this is in 2013 Not everyone carried their phones and but I did and, and took a picture at the end where we were stopped and put it on Facebook. And but some people said, you know, they were so happy to see because people who are in the marathon locally, were very worried about marathon as you know, did they get finished? Safely? I was gonna say successfully, who cares? Well, you know, the race all of a sudden you know, but you our lives you know where we were we safe and sound and because I put a picture on Facebook, I said something like I’m okay and and I’ll never forget the look of people. And I can just look at that picture find it and that will remind me but I don’t need reminding the grief on people’s faces to shock you know, not knowing what the heck was going on. And yeah, so horrifying. But yeah, and there’s a movie about that. Richard, if you haven’t seen it, I can’t remember the name but
Richard Conner 24:37
I do know the movie. I have not watched it. Interestingly enough. Those movies are quite hard to to watch, but but it has been on my list for a while. Yeah,
Bob Cargill 24:46
it would be hard to watch. It is hard for me to watch. It’s hard for me to even think about for history sake. It might be something you want to you know, look into watching that movie and if it’s too hard to watch, stop it but um that that movie certainly covers a lot of the details on anyways. Yeah, I was in that race. Yeah.
Richard Conner 25:07
Okay. All right. Well, thank you for sharing that. You know, what I always like to ask our guests, you know, especially about your running journey is, what would you say would have been your was your biggest challenge during your running journey?
Bob Cargill 25:22
Wow. So there’s a question I was not prepared for. That’s a tough question. Mainly because I’ve had so many. So yeah, as much as I smile and laugh and say, Oh, running, you know, so fun runner’s high, it’s, jeez, everybody, it is a constant challenge. Because, you know, you gotta pick yourself up and get out there. Like I say, it’s raining, it’s cold, and I’m gonna go out there, and then it’s kind of monotonous. And, you know, this danger. I mean, you know, cars, I run in the woods a lot, I fall, generally, again, the biggest challenges is when you get injured, I can’t stand not being able to run. And I mean, by injuries to me just, you know, hamstring issues or abductor issues, you’re mostly muscle type injuries, I sprained my ankle a bunch of times, if I’m sick, which is rare, and I can’t run. So the challenge of running is being is not being able to run, because I love being out there so much on when, so I’m on my own. Now, as a contractor, consultant, adjunct professor, I have some time more time than ever. But when I worked full time, which is most of my career, 35 plus years in marketing, it was always hard to find the time to run. So I’d either have to run early in the morning, or at night after work, which wasn’t at five, it was usually like at seven 730. So I’ve had some long days because of running, and I’ve had to really squeeze it in, again, which does take the pleasure out of it because you’d get, you know, running in the city say it’s seven o’clock, before you commute home, and then you have to get up again at six in the morning and do it all over again. Work run. You know. So that’s that’s a challenge. Again, it’s not a I can’t complain. But you asked the question, and is probably nothing like that dramatic there. But but it’s keeping it up and squeezing it in. And and being safe when you’re doing it. How’s that? Yeah, keeping safe when you’re doing it?
Richard Conner 27:25
Yeah, no, I think that’s great. And and the reason why why I asked the question is for our listeners to know, I mean, maybe many of them are runners, right? And they’re going through similar things. And just, you know, the advice on how to get through those same situations where if you’re injured, well, what do you do with that mindset of, well, I can’t run well, how do you take care of yourself, take care of your body and get to the point where you’re going to be back up and running, because you will be back on the road, right? You just need that time to, to heal. And then the the point about the time, I’m sure is a challenge for almost everybody.
Bob Cargill 27:59
You know, the longest one legit longest I’ve had to take off running. Like I told you ran on the track and cross country teams in high school. So ran competitively was probably my first year or two of college I took a little time off, then get back into it. Ever since probably the longest I’ve taken off is just a few months, because of injury in that I remember those few months it was during the winter, and I swam in a nearby pool into a pool. And that was hard, making the switch but I ended up really enjoying swimming and gathering, gaining an appreciation for how hard it is to swim, you know, lap after lap and how good a workout it is. So there’s another little tidbit.
Richard Conner 28:46
Awesome, awesome. Thank you so much, Bob, you know, kind of as we wind down here, I’d like to leave the listeners with any type of inspiration that you can share. So, you know, what would you say if our listeners are thinking about running? What would you say to inspire them to to get into running?
Bob Cargill 29:06
Yeah, I mean, there is that runner’s high number one, how can you not chase that runner’s high? How can you not resist that chase, but also join him running club? I’ve been a member of the greater Framingham running club for about 20 years and I was president of the club for four years. No longer am I president but that experience was amazing being president for four years and just belonging to a running club. So there’s a community so if you can’t motivate yourself or struggle sometimes motivating yourself you got others to motivate you and others to run with it makes it a lot easier. And then the community of runners you know, this social mobilization, meeting new friends, going to events that are or are not running related with running friends, it’s a community and like how you and I have connected Like you said, Hey, we are both marketers, but look at what we’re talking about and no more probably about each other is running. And so that’s a common bond. So connect with people realize the benefits aren’t just health there. I mean, not just physical health, their emotional health as well. So to me, shy of yes, you could get hurt. And I know not everybody can do it because of injuries. um excluding that, um, I can’t think of any reason why not to get out there and run because it’s, you know, it feels good. You’re outdoors. It actually adds to my energy. It doesn’t sap my energy. It gives me more energy.
Richard Conner 30:43
Awesome, awesome. Bob, thank you so much. sage advice for our community? How can our listeners find you and follow you online?
Bob Cargill 30:53
Yeah, thanks for asking that question. I have a blog. It’s thebobcargill.com. The, my name Bob Cargill. BobCargill.com and I have a ton there. And from there, they could find me on Twitter. I’m everywhere. I do a lot of social media. I think you know that. So I’m either thebobcargill or Bob Cargill, pretty much everywhere. LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram. I have a YouTube channel. I do videos all the time. Half marketing is my thing. And half motivational, which includes occasional stories about running.
Richard Conner 31:29
Awesome. Awesome, Bob, thank you so much. Thank you for coming on the show. I’ll put that information in the show notes to make it easy for our listeners to find you and follow you. And with that, you know, had a great conversation with you today. And I appreciate you coming.
Bob Cargill 31:44
Richard, you’re a great host and I’m honored again. And happy to be a guest on your show. So thank you so much for having me today.
Richard Conner 31:53
No problem. No problem at all. Well, thanks again, Bob. And have a great day.
Bob Cargill 31:57
You too, Richard. Thank you.
That’s it for this episode of Inspire Virtual Runs Podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a review. Also, be sure to click the subscribe button so you don’t miss an episode. Thanks for listening.