#101 – Looking to boost your running performance with the power of breath? Let’s venture on a conversational journey with Mike Bennet, the Scientific and Partnership Manager at Airofit, a man whose unique background in semi-professional rugby sparked a passion for running.
Mike enlightens us on the game-changing role of respiratory muscle training for runners, revealing how this training aids in increasing physiological potential and inspiratory pressure. He opens the book on Airofit’s solution and how they are revolutionizing runners’ training experiences. And if you’ve ever struggled with ‘hitting the wall’ during half marathons, Mike’s insights could be your much-needed breakthrough!
- Transition to nasal breathing with practical tips and training
- Benefits of nasal breathing beyond just better performance
- How Airofit is revolutionizing this space with their Respiratory Muscle Training solution
Mike Bennet, who is the scientific and partnership manager at Airofit, which is a respiratory muscle training company, or they provide solutions for respiratory muscle training
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Richard Conner: [00:00:00] Hi, my friend. Do you find yourself having trouble breathing, especially during physical activity or feel like you can improve your breathing and performance? Well, today we’re going to talk about the importance of respiratory muscle training. How it can help you in your everyday life and running in the tools available to help you with this type of training. Hope you enjoy.
Intro: Welcome to inspire to run podcast. Here, you will find inspiration, whether you’re looking to take control of your health and fitness, or you are a seasoned runner looking for community and some extra motivation, you will hear inspiring stories from amazing runners, along with helpful tips from fitness experts.
Now, here’s your host Richard Conner.
Richard Conner: Hi everyone. Welcome to inspire to run podcast today. I have the pleasure of sitting down with Mike Bennet, who is the scientific and partnership manager at Airofit, which is a respiratory muscle training company, or they provide solutions for respiratory muscle [00:01:00] training. And this is a real interest of mine because, you know, runners and athletes.
Are looking for a variety of ways to improve their performance, whether it’s through their training, through nutrition or gear. And this is a topic that’s near and dear to my heart because this respiratory muscle training is really interesting. Just kind of given my own performance and in my run. So really excited to just spend a few minutes with Mike to learn about him and Airofit and how, you know, they can help the running community.
So welcome to the show, Mike.
Mike Bennet: Thank you very much for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Richard Conner: Yeah, for sure. So Mike, you know, you’ve got a great background and also love to hear about Airofit, but just, you know, let’s just kind of get the conversation started and learn a little bit about you, maybe a little bit about, you know, professionally as well as, you know, personally in your athletic journey.
Mike Bennet: Yeah, for sure. So we can start back in New Zealand, which is actually where I’m from. So currently living in Denmark, working for Airofit. But my [00:02:00] background’s quite a unique one in the perspective of running. So, I studied exercise physiology and anatomy at the University of Otago. And upon graduation, just like any New Zealander, I got itchy feet and decided to explore the world.
And I told my mum that I’ll be back in 6 to 12 months, and that was 7 years ago, so sorry mum. But along the way I started playing semi professional rugby in England, which is where I kind of really developed a love for running. So like any university student, I was partying a bit more than I was training.
And when I got into the kind of higher leagues in England, I really discovered that my fitness was there or thereabouts. But if I was to pursue that higher level, I really had to step into the domain of running and step up my fitness. So… That kind of took a bigger ownership of my life.
Richard Conner: That’s really interesting. And, you know, it’s funny because a number of [00:03:00] the guests that come on the show will run, but typically is like secondary to some other sport, right? Whether it’s rugby or other sports. So that’s really interesting. So, you know, kind of common there and yeah. And it’s great that you’re able to move, uh, for your career and.
Just in, in life. And that’s something that I’ve always wanted to do throughout my career, but never took the chance to do it. So I dunno, I dunno if that time has passed for me, but I’ll live vicariously through you.
Mike Bennet: There’s always opportunity to travel in the modern age.
Richard Conner: Yeah, for sure. So, so, you know, kind of take us from there. So, you know, that was kind of introduction to running. So tell us a little bit about running and I know there’s a connection there also with, you know, how you joined Arrowfit to tell us a little bit about that.
Mike Bennet: Yeah. So upon the realization that I was gonna stay in the lower leagues of rugby near of a really cracked the full professional, I decided to look for opportunities elsewhere and that really fell into kind of the professional domain where [00:04:00] I moved to Denmark. So currently living in Denmark and working for Airofit.
Airofit was essentially a gate for me to get more into running. So I was reasonably fit and stuff like that, but I found limiting factors and being quite a bigger guy from that rugby background, my lungs are often overworked. So by using Airofit daily, because I’m working here, I need to use it daily.
And then it kind of opened the door for me to be able to pursue like longer runs as well as shorter, more on high intensity runs. And this has really like changed my relationship with running before I was very, I love the word akinesiophobia, which is that fear of movement. I wasn’t in that kind of extreme, but I was really knowing if I’m going to run a 10K, my lungs are going to be burning and it’s a very uncomfortable feeling.
So through using Airofit, I’ve really. progressed in my running to that longer duration.[00:05:00]
Richard Conner: I love that. And this is, this is what I want to get into, you know, just. Personally, uh, so I’ve been a runner since high school. Then I took a number of years off and then started running just a few years ago, but really training, um, just in the last three or four years. And I feel like my body feels good when I’m doing my runs, whether it’s a 5k or 10 K or, or maybe a little bit longer than I don’t know, half marathon, everything hurts, but you know, below that, you know, my body feels pretty good, but my breathing.
I feel is really what challenges me or holds me back. So, you know, I’ve done a variety of training in terms of like hill work and speed work and really kind of mixing it up. Um, but this is an area that I feel like I need to focus on. And I’m, you know, I’m thinking about for our community, whether they’re not running today.
And like you said, if they, if they’re moving and they feel winded, they’re thinking, well, you know, if I run, that’s really going to hurt. Or even for runners that are looking to improve their performance. This is a really interesting topic.
Mike Bennet: Yeah, for [00:06:00] sure. And I’m going to kind of go back to something you really mentioned that a lot of runners do is hill work. So for a runner yourself, you do hill work in order to become more efficient running flat ground, correct?
Richard Conner: Mm. Yep.
Mike Bennet: Yeah. So that’s not too dissimilar to how I describe Airofit as a tool for runners.
So if you can overload the respiratory system, you’re going to become so much more efficient when you’re under less resistance while running.
Richard Conner: Got it. Got it. So, like, how does that work? Tell us a little bit about the technology and, you know, what, what does someone do with this with your products?
Mike Bennet: For sure. So here I like to kind of mention it as a three step process. So the first step is taking a lung test. The lung test consists of your accessible lung capacity, your inspiratory and expiratory pressures. or your one root max, how strong you actually are. And then based on that, you’re going to track over time, your improvements, [00:07:00] just like running a 5k, you’re going to see changes in how fast you are with this.
You’re going to see how strong your lungs are based upon these measures, as well as your metrics, age, height, weight, and what else goes into your kind of buildup. You are going to be able to then have a unique training style for you. So, once you have the kind of foundation or the test, we then take that, your goals, and then we give you a training program.
So the training program consists of a unique breathing pattern. We have around 17 of them in the app, and this is quite similar to like box breathing, circle breathing, and controlled hyperventilation. But what we offer is that against resistance. So on the device itself, we have six levels of inhalation as well as exhalation and you’re going to go through breathing patterns and focus on inspiratory, expiratory strength or things such as hypoxia or breath holds and what this is going to do is train your respiratory system to be more efficient And where that really [00:08:00] matters is, as you mentioned in the half marathon, when your lungs are screaming, your body’s screaming.
Richard Conner: Okay. Okay. So this is a training program that I’m going to do for a certain period of time. Is it something that, you know, is it like your daily vitamins? You just do it every day. Like, how does that part work?
Mike Bennet: Yeah. So what we’ve done is we’ve kind of put each program into a 28 day training block. So a bit of periodization and the training changes every day. The app guides you through exactly what you need to do. And it starts off around three to five minutes a day. And that’s broken down into two sessions. So you can just jump on in the morning, do one of your sessions.
Go about your day, then do another one just before bed, and you’re kind of splitting your training into two small cohorts and intertwining into your daily life.
Richard Conner: And, you know, and I love that because, you know, 1 of the things. That at least you talk about here is kind of around like those habits, right? So whether it’s your habit of, [00:09:00] uh, doing your workouts and your runs or other habits in your life. So having something that is daily that you could stick to for a specified period of time, that’s definitely.
You know, doable for, for any of us who are just kind of used to getting into those types of routines and does it matter? So like right now I’m training for my half marathon, my next half marathon, which is about. So a little bit over a month. So that close to a half marathon. Is this something that I would start now, or is this something that I would say maybe wait until after the half marathon and do it before my next training block running block.
Mike Bennet: Well, you could kind of look at it from two perspectives. Just like any type of training, if it’s completely new to you, you’re going to have that kind of delayed onset of muscle soreness. You’re going to be a wee bit sore. It’s a six week period. I would more than recommend jumping on it now, but if it’s kind of that.
tapering two to three weeks prior to a half, I wouldn’t, just because you’re in your routine, you’re really ready to go, you know your body, but six weeks out, I’d [00:10:00] more than recommend jumping on it and experimenting a little, so then you have that time to become a little bit more, acclimatized to the type of training, if you like,
Richard Conner: Okay. That that’s good advice. So, you know, tell me what success have you seen, you know, with, with folks that are using this? I don’t, you know, I don’t know if you have any success stories specifically for runners, because I think this could be used. Really for anybody, regardless of, you know, what sport they’re doing or, um, what level of activity that they’re doing, obviously getting off the couch.
Right. Anything more than that. But what kind of, what kind of success have you seen?
Mike Bennet: uh, it really varies, as you mentioned, it can be used by such a wide range of people. So we see people who are really beginning, you know, the old couch to 5k kind of challenges and stuff like that, then people really excel in it. And that is purely because they’ve never used these muscles before. So anything is really going to impact it, but at the elite [00:11:00] level.
Like in the office, we have a Olympic steeplechase runner in the 3k discipline. And the way he mentions it is it allows him to kind of have that trust in his lungs. So he uses a, in a four week block leading up to a bigger race and just having that kind of subconscious trust in his lungs again, allowing it to open up.
And he sees his, uh, his lung capacity stays about the same because he’s accessing his kind of physiological potential or his anatomical, how big his rib cage is. But then what he really notices is inspiratory pressure really rises, and this allows him to become more efficient at breathing. So that’s where the benefit really comes from at that elite level.
Richard Conner: Okay. Okay. And, you know, so to kind of, to that point, one thing that we haven’t talked about. Yeah. But we, we talked about, you know, kind of before the conversation was around like that VO two max, like that’s something that we track as runners. You know, there’s, there’s tests that [00:12:00] we could do just to see where we are.
And it varies over time. Right. Depending on what our age is. And, um, I, I believe our fitness level. So, you know, how would someone make that correlation between what they see from a VO two max versus like the benefits they’ll get from. From Aerofit.
Mike Bennet: This is a really great area in literature, actually, because Respiratory muscle training is kind of research on the whole range of people, from people who are coming off ventilators, suffering from COPD, asthma, and the people in the very impaired situations or they’re below where they are expected to be.
They do see an increase in VO2max, but then on the extreme upper end, you’re not going to see much of an improvement in respiratory and VO2max, sorry. Especially if oxygen isn’t the limiting factor. So, VO2max is determined through a lot of things such as how efficient the cells are at utilizing [00:13:00] how, uh, it diffuses into the muscle and you can pump as much oxygen in as you want, but if there’s another roadblock somewhere, you’re really gonna be struggling to see an increase in VO2 max just from respiratory muscle training alone.
Richard Conner: Okay. And then, but is that necessary, right? Do, do I need to see that VO2 max increase to see then a corresponding increase in my own performance?
Mike Bennet: No, so that’s quite a big misconception around breathwork respiratory muscle training is. VirtuMax is the be all end all of breathing performance. So, if you’re really increasing, for example, your inspiratory and expiratory pressure of how efficient you are pulling air in and pushing out, then your respiratory system is actually going to be a lot more utilized.
So, are you aware of the, like, phenomenon called the metabolic reflux?
Richard Conner: I’m not aware of that. No.[00:14:00]
Mike Bennet: So this is kind of a speculated area where as you’re performing, you have 100 percent of the oxygen utilization, right? And if your locomotor muscles, your legs and arms are taking 50 percent and then your respiratory functions, your brain, kind of the stuff keeping you alive is taking 50%. When you start working harder, there’s more demand on your respiratory system.
So they start stealing oxygenated blood from your locomotor muscles. So I might go to 60 percent of your, um, oxygenated blood is in your lungs, keeping you alive, and only 40 percent in your legs. By being more efficient in the respiratory system, you’re actually going to be able to balance that out for a more prolonged period of time.
So we see it a lot in climbers and cycling. So they can kind of excel up their climb a lot more, but also in halves and full marathons even, to that extent, is. You don’t hit the wall as such.
Richard Conner: [00:15:00] Okay. Okay. So, so basically it’s going to make your, and we, we talked about this before, but, uh, you gave a really good explanation there. So it’s going to make your respiratory system more efficient and, Not only more efficient in using the oxygen, but leaving more oxygen for the other parts of your body.
Mike Bennet: Yeah, for sure. Because there is that finite amount of oxygen you can get in. And when your body is running more efficient, it’s going to utilize it for performance rather than the areas that are going to keep you alive.
Richard Conner: Okay. All right. That’s interesting. Well, it’s funny that you say it that way. Cause when I’m running that half marathon, I feel like I’m fighting for my life. So I guess that’s a very relevant way to describe it.
Mike Bennet: Exactly.
Richard Conner: That’s cool. Okay. So. You know, thank you for sharing that. That’s really helpful. And it’s helpful to understand kind of the science behind or the philosophy behind respiratory muscle training and the benefits that we get as runners.
Um, when we can use it, [00:16:00] right. It’s like you said, if it’s a couple of weeks before. You know, big race, probably not the best time to do it, but six weeks, you know, it’s probably an okay time for you to, to kind of get started in this. I love how it’s, you know, you have those training blocks. So you, you deliver the training plan to me as a runner, um, and a user of the solution.
And then I had that training block where I could use it every day for that specific specified period of time. So, . That’s really helpful to know. So, you know, let’s, let’s talk a little bit more about you. So you mentioned that, you know, kind of joining the company and now using the device and now you’re running.
So, you know, tell me a little bit more about your journey, you know, using the device or how your running journey has progressed.
Mike Bennet: Yeah. So I’m just naturally, uh, insanely inquisitive person. Like if something comes to my mind, I just want to explore it. And of course, We know the big buzzword around breathing at the moment is nasal breathing. So everyone loves nasal breathing, [00:17:00] especially because of James Nesta’s Breathe book and Oxygen Advantage and everything else that’s coming around.
And I wanted to know how Aerofit helps with nasal breathing. So a little experiment I did on myself, which looking back was horrible. But before I started training with Airofit, I taped my mouth and ran a 5k as fast as I could. That was horrible. Terrible. I ran around a 38 minute 5k and it was the worst 38 minutes of my life.
But by training with Airofit, I was actually became a lot more comfortable with breathing through my nose while running at a higher intensity. So I got down to about 28 minutes with my mouth tape. And I know that’s not a fast 5k, ten minute improvement. And what this came down to is your nasal passage offers around 10 centimeters of water resistance and here if it goes up to 250 [00:18:00] centimeters of water resistance.
So essentially breathing 25 times harder through Airofit made my nose feel like it was nothing. So that’s a very interesting way of looking at it from a kind of personal running perspective.
Richard Conner: Okay. So tell me about that. Cause actually that’s something that I’m probably terrible today. I don’t do any nasal, you know, nasal running. I’m not sure. I think I’d be pretty afraid to take my mouth shut and run. Um,
Mike Bennet: not recommend it.
Richard Conner: I would be able to do that, but you know, so like, what are the benefits of that?
So that, I mean, so I think the example that you gave just showcases the power, right? Of the device and how it can help you, but like, what, what would be that benefit of that nasal running?
Mike Bennet: With nasal breathing, you’re more likely to go into that diaphragmatic breathing, so breathing deeper. And what this does is it allows you to kind of activate the parasympathetic nervous system or the rest and digest. And if you’re kind of in that hyperventilation, upper coastal [00:19:00] breathing are up in your shoulders.
you’re really going to go into the fight or flight and that’s when you might just make a dumb decision and push the pace a bit too fast because you’re overexcited this actually allows you to calm down and relax into the run a lot more as well as um filtration and stuff like that the nasal passage has natural uh filtering as well as an increase in nitrous oxide production so you’re just going to become a cleaner more efficient runner and like you mentioned a lot of people do struggle with nasal breathing through running?
Richard Conner: I feel like we need to have a whole episode just dedicated on this topic. Cause this is something that I should probably know or be doing. And honestly, hadn’t given it any thought.
Mike Bennet: Yeah, it’s surprising. Breathing is, it’s the first thing we do in life and it’s the last thing we do in life, but it is literally the most overlooked thing we do in life.
Richard Conner: I just want to dive into this topic a little bit more. So is this, is this how someone [00:20:00] can start like using, using this device and then slowly kind of shifting towards. nasal breathing. And is there, are there any other alternatives then, you know, kind of the extreme of taping your mouth shut?
Is there something that someone could do kind of along the way to ease them into that?
Mike Bennet: Yeah, for sure. So, if you’re going to be a stronger breather, you’re going to be more efficient at breathing through the nose. And then there, there’s a magnitude of other ways you can kind of prepare yourself for this. So, I’ve heard of people holding a wee bit of water in their mouth. So they just run with half a mouthful of water.
So then if they suddenly need to breathe, they can. But it kind of is that physical barrier to breathing through your nose. Of course, nasal breathing isn’t optimal. Once you get around 80 percent of your VO2 max, you should start mouth breathing because there’s a bigger pipe you can pull more air in. But in the lower kind of intensities, nasal breathing is…[00:21:00]
a bit more beneficial.
Richard Conner: Okay. So if I’m doing, you know, long run zone two heart rate, I pretty much should be able to do nasal breathing for that
Mike Bennet: Yeah. If you can, I think Huberman talks about it a lot, is zone two, you should be able to talk. And if you can talk, you should be able to breathe through your nose. So it’s kind of like a causation thing. And it’s just a really nice kind of conscious way of monitoring how intense your training.
Richard Conner: Okay. Okay. And then, you know, I know we talked about some of the technical terms here that we don’t talk about too often on the show. So, you know, just in terms of the heart rate, we’re talking about the zones is related to heart rate, right? And that’s personalized for every individual. So there’s zones one through five, and there’s training that’s associated with those that, you know, a running coach or a fitness professional can provide to you.
So, you know, I’ve shared a little bit about my story about a year ago. Um, I did the same half marathon I’m going to do in about six weeks and,[00:22:00] , I PR, but I didn’t get to where I wanted to be. So I told my coach, I will do whatever you tell me to do. You just need to help me get to the time that I want.
And the, the key change that we made in my training program is we went from, you know, training. By, , distance and time now by, I’m sorry, distance and speed now to time and heart rate and the focus has been more on time on my feet, but also making sure that, you know, I’m more diverse in terms of my training, right?
Whether it’s, you know, kind of lower heart rate zones, easy pace versus, you know, higher heart rate zones and then, you know, harder training. So that’s the big change that I made. So just, you know, for our listeners, you know, heart rate training is something that I would. That has been good for me. I’ve definitely seen an improvement in doing that.
And, uh, I don’t probably talk about it as much. So probably need to have a whole conversation around that as well.
Mike Bennet: Yeah. Heart rate zone training is phenomenal. That way you can really individualize it as well. And just about everyone these [00:23:00] days monitors their heart rate through a Garmin app or another watch. So it’s such an accessible thing, especially compared to 10 years ago. And it’s great to hear you’re getting really good performances.
Richard Conner: You know, my heart rate. Has been improved since I started a year ago, right? I probably ran, I don’t know, 11, 12 minute miles, and I’m already in almost in zone 4 and so now I’ve seen them marked improvement, you know, year over year in that case. And I’ve also run a few races where I’m starting to also see improvements were, you know, just not even so much in the time, but also in how I feel like I don’t feel like I’m completely dying.
You know, as once I get past mile eight or nine, like it’s still hard, but I’m not, you know, fighting for my life as I was kind of joking around before. So that, that’s kind of improved.
Mike Bennet: Yeah, that’s really cool to hear. And it’s going to be interesting to see how you actually get your time closer.
Richard Conner: Well, that’s, that’s one of the reasons why we’re having this conversation, right? I’m looking [00:24:00] for ways to improve. And this is an area that I feel is a gap for me. So, and I’m sure for our listeners there, there might be others that are thinking that this is kind of one of their limiting factors, right?
Maybe their, their legs feel good and they feel strong, but maybe, you know, around that breathing is where they might need help. So really excited to, to have this conversation with you. And, you know, I love to learn, you know, well, first I’d like to ask, what is the one thing that you would say to our community to inspire them to run and use a respiratory muscle training, you know, solution.
Mike Bennet: Well, for me, the thing that’s really benefited me the most from respiratory muscle training into my running is I can hold a conversation while I’m running. I’m a social runner. I’m not going out to compete. So if I can go for a run and have a conversation, it’s kind of that. Kind of all encompassing health.
So I’m getting that social connection. I’m getting the physical benefits, but I’m enjoying it a lot [00:25:00] more and it’s making me want to run more. So going for that run, having a conversation, it’s just added a unique aspect to my run,
Richard Conner: I love that. I love that. I personally am a solo runner. I am excited to see people at races, but when I do my rides, I’m, I’m not, I’m normally not having a conversation with someone. I guess like if I’m on the phone, then I’ll, you know, I’ll do that sometimes on my long run, but, uh, but I could totally see that.
I think that’s, you know, that’s one of the benefits of running is the running community. And it is, it can be a social sport, you know, unlike some others where you’re really just competing. Right. And especially those team. So, uh, I totally get that. And that’s great that this, um, that’s great advice for our community, for those that, that do run and run groups or friends or accountability, um, partners that this will help them kind of in their breathing and to have conversations during the runs.
Mike Bennet: Yeah. And then another aspect I feel like we haven’t touched on too much with breath work or respiratory muscle training [00:26:00] is recovery. So how important would you say recovery is to you in your running journey?
Richard Conner: Oh, very important, especially as I’ve ramped up my training. Right. So now I feel like I need more recovery. So it’s very important.
Mike Bennet: Yeah, because one really nice aspect of. Aerofit itself is the unique training kind of styles of breathing I mentioned earlier. They have, um, like downregulation or ones that are more directed towards sleep and recovery. So what I really like to do with my Aerofit is downregulate before bed. So I chuck on a five minute.
Mindfulness, which is, , prolonged exhalations, which clears that carbon dioxide. My, uh, one thing I measure is my stress score on my Garmin and that can go down by about 20 to 30 points. And if I actually do that, my HRV, heart rate variability actually increases while I sleep. So that downregulation kind [00:27:00] of sleep hygiene, if you like, really improved with respiratory muscle training as well.
So that’s a cool aspect you could try in your kind of daily life.
Richard Conner: Love it. Love it. That that’s really great to know. So, so many benefits, right? So benefits, if you’re no matter what you’re doing, right. Is if you’re moving. Um, you’ll benefit from respiratory muscle training. Uh, if you’re a runner, we talked about some of the benefits there and some of the things that you’ll be able to do as a result, perform better, have conversations with your fellow runners, um, and then recovery.
I think that’s really an important point. And we’ve talked about that kind of in different settings, just, um, around, you know, recovery gear or things you could do to, to recover. So this is one more solution to add to recovery. That’s really great.
Mike Bennet: For sure. And it’s kind of one of those that ticks all the boxes, the performance side, as well as the recovery. So. You’ve kind of a win win solution.
Richard Conner: Love it. Love it. Mike. Love this conversation. You just shared so [00:28:00] much. So much value with our community. You know, I’d love to know like what’s next for you as a runner and what’s next for Airofit.
Mike Bennet: Well, next is in Copenhagen. Actually, we have a really cool event called the DHL fun run. And that’s where companies have a team of five and everyone does a 5k. So we have that in about three weeks and it’s not the place to PR. It’s a couple of thousand people running a little 5k dirt track. So there’s dirt and.
That to me is like kind of the, optimize what I love about running is that community, which you mentioned the running community is phenomenal. So that’s coming up in a few weeks. We’re excited for that. And then for Airofit, it’s just continuing to bring better breathing to the world. So everyone breathes, everyone can improve.
So if we can share that message through people such as yourself and really expand the knowledge and allow people to perform optimally.
Richard Conner: Awesome. Awesome. Mike. Thank you so much. How can our community find and follow Airofit online?[00:29:00]
Mike Bennet: Yeah, so, uh, Airofit.Com is just our standard website. And then of course we’re on Instagram Airofit and then across other socials as well.
Richard Conner: All right. Well, I will include all the information in the show notes to make it easy for our listeners to find you and follow you. And Mike, thanks again for this information. I learned a lot. I know our listeners did as well, and there’s a lot of benefits that we can gain from this. So thanks again for coming on the show and have a great day.
Mike Bennet: No worries. Thanks for having me.
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