How to improve race day performance through nutrition with Jenny Vierling! Ep85

Richard Conner: [00:00:00] Hey, everyone. Are you getting the most gains from your workout or best performance on race day? Well, the answer lies whether or not you’re getting proper nutrition. During a workout after your workout and on race day. So today we’re sitting down with Jenny Vierling from Tailwind Nutrition, and we’re going to share what you need to know about the right nutrition. Again. During a workout post-workout for recovery. And on race day. I hope you enjoy.

hi everyone. Welcome to Inspire to Run podcast. I have the honor of sitting down with Jenny Vierling today. She’s the co-founder of Tailwind [00:01:00] Nutrition. She comes from an ultra cycling background and started Tailwind Nutrition about 12 years ago to solve their own personal needs, and then it turned into a successful brand that it is today.

Hydration is a topic that we talk about sometimes in the podcast episodes, but not as a dedicated topic, and it’s so important as it’s important, just as important as your gear and your training and your sleep. It’s an important element for your performance, uh, . So just really excited to sit down today with Jenny and learn more about Tailwind Nutrition and their story.

So welcome to the show, Jenny.

Jenny Vierling: Oh, thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Richard Conner: Yeah, for sure. So, you know, let’s really just jump into the conversation. You mentioned that you started Tailwind Nutrition about 12 years ago. Share with us your story, like what brought you to that point of starting the company?

Jenny Vierling: Sure. So they say that necessity is the mother of invention, and that is certainly the case with Tailwind Nutrition. So my [00:02:00] husband who rides the Leadville 100 every single year, he was always encountering stomach issues. And it was really frustrating. And I think maybe a lot of your listeners can relate to this, where you spend all this time and energy and effort and training for this event that is like your goal for the year, right?

And it’s really frustrating to feel like you are ready to go and then. Your stomach gives you problems, and then before you know it, you’re to, you’ve torpedoed your race because of, um, nutrition or fueling issues. And so he is a problem solver and he just was like, going to figure this out. So we tried everything out on the market, nothing was working for him.

So he sat down and really started looking at how does your body process feel? So rather than really looking at it from a. Cellular, your level. He was really looking at it from a holistic level of how does your body process fuel? And he discovered that quite a number of the products on the [00:03:00] market were actually approaching that problem in the wrong way.

And so he sat down and he kind of came up with his own formulation and he started riding with it. And then folks that he would ride with in this bike and beer group, it’s just like this group here in Durango, Colorado. Um, they noticed that he was riding with this stuff and so then they asked him for.

Some samples if they could ride with it. And then they started riding with it and they really liked it. And before he knew it, he was like, I, I would walk into the kitchen and then I’d see all this powder in the kitchen just like coming out from the KitchenAid. Um, cuz he was making it a lot. And he said, well gosh, you know, maybe I should just throw this up on the level 100 form and see if people wanna test it.

And so that’s what he did and he got this, um, he got this note back. Or an email back from this one lady who for seven years had been trying to finish the Shenandoah 100 and she had never been able to, cause at miles 70 or 80 her stomach always shut down and for the first [00:04:00] time she was able to finish.

And she, in her email, she said that, When she crossed that line, she had literally broken down in tears because it was a goal that she had been trying to reach for so long and she had finally achieved it and there were literally like tears of happiness. And I think that’s when we realized, wow, there’s something really. Powerful about this, helping people achieve their personal goals. So at that time, at that moment, we decided, well, let’s give it a try. So we sent the formulation to, um, a co-manufacturer. Um, and so they. Made a bunch of it for us. I think we came out with 500 units. We threw up a website and we decided to sell it and people bought it and then they came back and they bought it again and said great things about it.

And then things just grew from there. So that’s, that’s how the product started. It wasn’t supposed to be a company at all. It was really designed for Jeff to be able to finish the Leadville 100. And, um, and he did so, and his stomach was happy in the end. [00:05:00] So, and then I started using it because, well, you know, as the wife, you’re always, I was kind of in denial that my husband had actually really created something that was really great.

But then I used it, um, at, um, the Silver Rush, which is a 50 mile mountain bike ride in, in Leadville. And, I’m sorry I didn’t use it. I said, well, I’m gonna use my own stuff and my stomach shut down. I was, it was horrible. I got to the halfway point. I couldn’t take anything more of what I was, was what I was drinking or eating.

So I was literally like riding back on vapors and I got caught in a hailstorm, which happens at 10,000 feet and it was awful. And so then the next time I used his product at a century, I was riding and it was great. And so then I was converted and yeah, and so anyways from there, challenges. Just.

Richard Conner: Oh, incredible story and congratulations on all your success and I love how this started and I love the journey that you’ve been on to where you are today. And again, this is such an important topic and you know, [00:06:00] from my personal. Experience, I’m come coming at it from a different direction. I didn’t take any hydration products for, for many years and I, I was a cross country runner in high school, so really did a 5K in terms of distance.

That was kind of my max. Did a little bit more in training, but not too much more. And then just a few years ago I started running longer distances as part of my Spartan obstacle course races, which are listeners who’ve been following us for a while, knows that I’ve been, that’s kind of my midlife crisis that I’ve been, you know, kind of doing for the last few years.

As I’m doing the longer distances, I wasn’t performing maybe as I wanted to. It just didn’t feel good during the runs, it always felt really hard and I remember just, I don’t remember, it was maybe two or three years ago, I remember it was a hot summer. I was running more outdoors cuz it’s covid and I was not, well for like two days I’m on the couch.

I wasn’t sick, but I wasn’t well. And someone was like, are you like taking like electrolytes or like, what are you doing? You’re running outdoors. It’s really hot. Like, what are you doing for that? I’m [00:07:00] like, no, should I be? So, you know, after decades of running, I don’t even know the basics, which is quite, you know, not great.

So, so I started to take some things, but then again, running that, those longer distances for the Spartan races and then eventually half marathons, I needed to carry something on the road. That could meet the needs of, you know, me being kind of this endurance, um, runner. So my coach introduced me to Tailwind and literally just kind of changed my life.

So, so excited to have you here to learn more about the company, but just to emphasize the importance, um, of hydration and of products like yours.

Jenny Vierling: Yeah. Um, you know, I think it’s, it’s funny when people start running or they’re doing obstacle races, they’re really focused on the event at hand and are they, you know, are, are they wearing the right shoes? Is their pace okay? There are all these different things to think about, and nutrition is kind of an afterthought.

And nutrition can actually end up torpedoing your race, especially if it’s a longer race [00:08:00] and. You know, it’s, it’s actually not that complicated. I think a lot of companies out there, they end up making it more complicated than what it really has to be. So it really boils down to three components. It boils down to, in terms of fueling yourself, fueling yourself on the course, um, it boils down to hydration calories.

Electrolytes and making sure that all three of those are in balance. So if you look at the hydration piece in general, and, and there’s this bell curve, so sometimes people will need less or some people will need more. And it also varies by, um, by environmental circumstances as well. Um, but really for hydration purposes, it takes you, you wanna take about 20 to 24 ounces of water per hour.

If you are doing a longer event, say two hours plus, you wanna target between two to 300 calories per hour, and then from an electrolyte perspective, you basically want to replace what [00:09:00] you’re sweating out. Um, so, and, and there are, there are reasons behind that, which I can go into more detail about. Um, but it really does boil down to those three components and making sure that you’re taking in the right amounts.

Over the right period of time. What’s also interesting is in talking to a lot of runners, people tend to think in terms of distance. Like, I’m going to take a gel every 5k, or I’m going to take a swig every seven k or whatever. But you really wanna think in terms of time and not distance because of the variability of the terrain.

So you may be able to run. , you know, a mile in, you know, 10 minutes on, uh, on, on a flat track. I’m talking about myself, so I’m like a 10 minute miler. So like on a flat terrain, I can probably do about a 10 minute mile, but if I’m going uphill, it’s gonna take me much longer than that.

10 minutes to do a mile. So that’s why you wanna think [00:10:00] in terms of time and not distance when you’re figuring out your nutrition.

Richard Conner: Yeah, that’s, that’s really interesting. And you know, I can connect to this because my training has changed over the past year. I used to run by speed and distance, and now I’m running by time and. Heart rate. So even for me, the way I’m training today, yeah, I’m taking, you know, my nutrition at certain points in time versus really focusing on the distance.

So that’s really interesting that that’s really the guidance for how we should be thinking about nutrition.

Jenny Vierling: Yep. Exactly. And the reason why you wanna target, um, between two and 300 calories per hour is that if you think about how your body does process fuel is the amount. That you can actually absorb on a per hour basis. So if you’re giving yourself way too many calories, you can overload your gut, which can cause GI problems.

And then if you’re taking in too little, then you’re going to be under fueling yourself. And so you’re [00:11:00] gonna, you’re gonna run through your glycogen stores much more quickly, and you’re gonna end up bonking. So when you’re out there, And you’re doing your training, that’s a really great time to figure out how many calories per hour you actually can absorb, and you’re gonna discover this sweet, I call it the sweet spot, where you’re not feeling overly satiated or fuel, which is an indicator that you’re taking in too many calories and you’re not feeling slow and sluggish, which is an indicator that you’re taking in two little calories.

And that absorption rate varies from person to person, and it’s genetic. It’s actually not tied to body mass. So for me, I take, I end up taking in about 225 per hour. Um, my husband Jeff, takes in 250 per hour. Um, we find that a lot of runners end up at about 200 calories per hour because there’s more stress placed on the GI system.

So you just figure it out during your training. And the reason why, From a hydration perspective, you wanna target between 20 to [00:12:00] 24 ounces of water, is that it takes about 10 to 12 ounces of water to digest about a hundred calories, and it’s often a reason why people end up. With problems with gels, cuz I think, cuz gels are pretty viscous and people forget that you actually need to take in water with your gel in order to process those calories.

So they end up getting dehydrated, which can cause stomach issues. So that’s why you wanna target between 20 to 24 ounces of water. And again, we’re talking about that bell curve, so people will take in less or more and you just. Kind of find your sweet spot. And then with the electrolytes as well, on average, the human sweats out, um, between 600 and 800 milligrams of sodium per hour.

So that’s what you wanna replace. And then there are some trace minerals, um, which is your magnesium, your calcium in your potassium that you’ll also wanna replace. So for Tailwind, what we do is we just combine it all together so that you’re basically drinking a bottle an hour and you’re good and you don’t need to think about anything else.

Richard Conner: Yeah. [00:13:00] Okay. That’s really informative. And you know, I know that there’s, I. Things that you do differently with Tailwind than, than maybe with others. So like what makes, can you share a little bit about what makes Tailwind a little bit different than maybe some of the other brands?

Jenny Vierling: Yeah. So what we try to do is, is we basically are, are about simplifying your nutrition. Um, you know, like I said, I think. nutrition doesn’t have to be complicated, and I think if you are from, from our perspective, when you are separating the different components of your calories and your electrolytes and hydration, particularly on longer events, it makes it very difficult to, to keep track of all of that.

So if you can figure out what your absorption rate is in terms of the taking per hour. You can build it around that. So that’s what we do with, with Tailwind Nutrition. So if you’re running it at 200 calories an hour, you fill the bottle, you know, 20 to 24 ounce, um, water bottle with two scoops of tailwind, which is your 200 calories, and then it has the electrolytes in it as well.

So you’re [00:14:00] combining it all. You don’t need to think about these different components. It’s like a bottle an hour and you’re good. And those components are represented in the right ratio. That minimizes the chance for GI distress. So there are a couple of things around GI distress.

Um, Which we think Tailwind helps to address. One is, um, because they’re liquid calories as opposed to solid calories, they can pass right through your GI system. Your stomach’s role is really to break down what you’re taking in, into usable form of calories. So, If you’re thinking about solid food, it enters your stomach, enters all these acids and enzymes, which ends up breaking it down into smaller pieces.

And also, through your, through your, the digestive process, it’s also pulling out the glucose and fructose because that’s a useful form of energy that your body uses in order to fuel itself. Well with Tailwind, our simple carbohydrates are glucose and sucrose, which contains fructose. So it’s already in [00:15:00] the form that your body uses.

There’s no digestion required, so it just passes through and is ready for immediate absorption. So we are a huge proponent of liquid calories because we believe that it minimizes that GI distress. Cause your body doesn’t need to do anything with it. In addition, you can, End up causing GI issues.

Like I said before, by taking in way too many calories. So you probably know when you go to the aid stations and people are just grabbing all this stuff and before they know it, you know they’re taking in four, 600 calories just in that one aid station stop. And so your body, cuz it can only absorb between that 200, 300 calories, those excess calories just have to kinda hang out in your GI system waiting to be digested, which can cause GI issues.

In addition, there’s this. Condition called, , fructose malabsorption, which when you’re taking in too much fructose, the excess fructose can be sent to your large intestine where all this nasty bacteria hangs out, and then it just has a heyday and you can end up with GI issues. So we’ve paid special attention to [00:16:00] that glucose to fructose ratio.

So that it works for the vast majority of people, even those who suffer from irritable bowel syndrome. And I think this is a difference where we see what happens in the laboratory where the laboratory setting shows a two to one ratio of the glucose fructose ratio is superior. Um, but in real life on the trail, we think that the ratio of glucose or fructose should be higher.

So that’s another difference. And then the other thing that can cause stomach issues, is that you can end up dehydrated. And so if you are not taking enough water, your body will literally take water from your bloodstream and bring it to d to your GI system in order to process those calories, which ends up accelerating dehydration and cause those causes stomach issues as well.

And then finally, protein is, , there’s a high correlation with protein and GI distress, and that’s one of the reasons why we don’t put it in our drink. , whereas some other, , products do include it in the drink or do include it in their fuel. , [00:17:00] so in a calorie deficit situation, and as I said before, You can absorb between two and 300 calories per hour, but you’re probably expending more than 500 plus calories an hour, right?

So your body makes up for that difference through, through your glycogen stores, which is your quick energy, , what you’re eating and drinking. And then also your fat stores. And so, , what you’re really trying to do is you’re trying to maximize your absorption of calories in order to minimize going into your glycogen stores.

Cause that’s, that has a finite, , limit. , and so with the deficit situation, , your body is, Taking that protein and through a process called GSIs is actually going to be converting it into glucose, which is really hard on the body and some people can do it just fine and they don’t suffer GI issues.

But because we are really focused on addressing GI issues, that’s why we decided to eliminate the protein. Really important for recovery. And it’s part of your overall diet, but [00:18:00] during exercise, you actually don’t need it. Um, so sorry, that was kind of a roundabout way of explaining it, but.

Richard Conner: No, that was super helpful. And I’m just thinking about my own experience, and I think I shared with you this before, that I’m starting to do these longer runs and. I’m maybe only drinking water. And my, my coach is like, no, you need to do more than this, right? You need to take a look at Tailwind nutrition and this is gonna help, you know, really fuel your body so you can perform better on your run.

So, you know, it’s really interesting to, uh, hear from you kind of the science behind it and the why. Uh, so that, that’s super helpful. And, you know, let’s talk a little bit in particular about the products and your manufacturing process. So I, you know, I know a little bit about, you know, kind of how you manufacture, but maybe share a little bit about.

Again, what kind of makes you different from, from others?

Jenny Vierling: Yeah, so when we first started Tailwind, it was really important to us that we also create a community asset and create local jobs. So we manufacture [00:19:00] everything locally, um, in Durango, Colorado. So we manufacture it, we ship it all from here. All of our employees are based out of here. So it was really.

Important to us to, to build that community asset. And I think that makes us a little bit different. , and also because of that, we’re really able to respond to our customers. , we do all of our product development here. , here. , In, in, , in Durango as well. , just Jeff really driving product development along with, , Monica, , who is our QA manager and just has an, an amazing scientific mind.

So, , so it’s a really collaborative process. , so I think that that, , that aspect of the business is. Is really important to us and, and paying a livable wage. , we live in a rural area in one of those mountain communities, , that definitely has seen its series of challenges, particularly, , during the Covid and coming outta Covid.

, so being able to create this community asset, , has been really important to us. , and, you know, I, I, I would say also that, , I might get a little bit emotional about this, so sorry. [00:20:00] But our customers are amazing. , and so anything that we can do for our customers that’s very central to what we do, , they are a reason for, for being here and continuing to be here after 12 years and gathering their feedback and their insights and their, their input is really critical for our company in servicing their needs.

So, um, that’s a really important piece. It’s not the most important piece for us.

Richard Conner: Well, I’m one of your biggest fans, so, so thank you for sharing that. And yeah, I mean, I love what you do and I love the little things that you do. I, I actually have tailwind sitting right next to me and you wrote my name on, uh, On the container. And you know, that’s really special and it really shows how much you care for not, you know, for your customers, but you also talked about caring for your employees and your community.

So I really love, you know, what your brand stands for. So, you know, let’s talk a little bit more about the product. So I’ll just share some of my examples and would love to hear, you know, your [00:21:00] thoughts on this. So, like I use, I’m looking at it right now, so endurance fuel. So this is what I’m using on my runs and I know you have, I think there’s versions with caffeine and, and maybe without caffeine.

So tell me a little bit about that. So I think I’m, I want to use everything with caffeine. I think that’s, that’s what I need, but when would I use one versus another? And, and, you know, share a little bit about some of the other products that you have.

Jenny Vierling: Yeah, sure. So that’s, that’s a really good question. So caffeine has two really good benefits for, for endurance athletes. One is, is essential nervous system boost that we’re all familiar with, right? We need to take a cup of coffee. The other is, is that it also can. Mobilize fatty acids, which can be used as another form of fuel.

So if you take caffeine, , you know, at the beginning of your race, it takes about three hours for those fatty acids to be mobilized, , and converted into that, , that usable form of energy. So, , that’s a really good use for it. , people also take the caffeinated products if they’re doing a 24 hour event, , they’ll take it in the middle of the night or if [00:22:00] they’re near the end of their event and they want that like, End, they’ll, they’ll take it then as well.

In general, you don’t want to exceed 500 milligrams of caffeine within a 24 hour period. So if you’re doing just the strictly caffeinated products, you probably wanna limit it to less than six hours of continuous use. , so that’s the one thing to pay attention to. And if you also are participating in high school sports, and we have quite a number of high school athletes, , caffeine is generally banned at the high school level.

So that’s something that. People just need to be aware of. , but it does have those two, two important benefits for, , for athletes, the central nervous system boost and the, , and mobilizing the fatty acids. , so that’s our caffeinated products. And then our regular pro, our regular endurance fuel, of course, is what we came out with originally.

, the caffeine was a request from our customers. The other product that we have, , is our recovery mix, which is really designed for after your, , after a, a big workout. And the whole [00:23:00] idea of recovery is really to help you. Basically to set you up for your next training session. So if you think about it, if you start a training session and you’re feeling like really weak or you know, just not at your optimum level, you’re not gonna have as strong of a workout, which ultimately is what leads to your success when you get to your event, right?

So recovery is often very overlooked, but a critical component if you really want to maximize your training and immediately, Post exercise is the best time to take in a product like our recovery mix, um, with the focus on replenishing your glycogen stores. So immediately post exercise, your body actually physiologically has evolved to absorb more glucose than at any other time.

And the reason for that is the insulin sensitivity. So, Immediately post exercises, insulin sensitivity is still in effect and it’ll actually drive more glucose,[00:24:00] , into your cells than at any other time. So you definitely wanna take advantage and that that sensitivity lasts for about another, about an hour after your activity.

So that’s why you wanna hit the glucose right away, whether it’s through our recovery mix or through a sports drink or whatever you wanna take in that. Wanna take in some glucose. , and then the second piece, of course, is rebuilding your damaged muscle tissue, which. And so our recovery mix, , it really is designed as being, again, to be very simple and convenient. So if you can get to a kitchen and have a meal, great that you should absolutely do that. But if you find that you’re not near the kitchen, then this is just an easy way to jumpstart your recovery with that glycogen replacement.

So, or replenishment. So coming off the trail, coming off the course or wherever you are, if you’re far away from the kitchen, then you just take a. And you’re jump starting your recovery. But again, if you’re like near your kitchen, then you know, [00:25:00] definitely go for the full, the full meal. Right. And one of the things that makes our recovery mix specifically really different from other recovery mixes on the product, on, on the market is that, first off, it’s vegan.

So we use a rice protein, which we buff out with amino acids to call, to, to build what we call a perfectly complete protein. And this is when the amino acids are present in the right ratios and amounts to build that complete protein. Um, and as a result of the way we filtered, it ends up being 77% efficient.

, so three times more efficient than a whey protein isolate in the same same serving. So you would take. Recovery mix versus 30 grams of whey protein isolate in order to get the same amount of complete protein. So that’s why it’s, , it’s, it’s really what sets it apart. , you wanna target about 15 grams of complete protein, , for a full recovery.

, and between about about 400 to 425, calories within [00:26:00] that first hour in order to replenish your, your glycogen stores.

Richard Conner: That’s super interesting. That’s, I, I love that you shared that and that I didn’t even know that. So I’ve been primarily using the endurance fuel, but I definitely need to take a look at the recovery so,

Jenny Vierling: Yeah. I call it, so I’m, I am, I’m 57, and so I don’t recover the way that I used to in my twenties. So, And I call this the, well, I call it the old woman elixir. Um, the guys in our office, they call it the old men’s elixir. Cause it, it’s, it’s, it’s a game. It has truly been a game changer for me, um, in, in terms of my ability to recover and go out the next day.

And, Go out and do another hard effort. , it’s amazing. And we have some athletes, , who are actually taking recovery mix during the course of their, , of if they’re going like 12 to 24 hours to actually take our recovery mix. , which sounds counterintuitive because I just said that protein, , can contribute to GI distress.

But because the bulk of [00:27:00] our, , recovery mix is amino acids, those amino acids just pass straight through. They don’t have to be digested. , so that’s, that’s also a major difference.

Richard Conner: Awesome. Awesome. Jenny, thank you so much. I love this conversation. It’s been so informative. Um, for our listeners, so you know, as we kind of wind down here, I’d love to know, you know, what’s. Next for you as an athlete, and then what’s next for Tailwind Nutrition?

Jenny Vierling: Yeah. , so what’s next for me as an athlete? I just finished up the, there’s a, um, event here called 12 Hours of Mesa Verde, so I just finished up that. , and then the last, and then, yeah, I’ll be going on, , a week long bike packing. Mountain biking trip. So I’m really looking forward to that, , in South Dakota and it’s exploring the Black Hills.

So, , that’s, that’s what’s next for me personally. , and then from, from a, from a sports standpoint, obviously there’s a lot going on in everyone’s life. So, , I do have a life outside of, outside of Tailwind. , and then, , and then for Tailwind, , you know, I [00:28:00] guess, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re always going to continue to be focused on our, our customers.

And the big news for us is that we are getting to re, we are, going to be releasing a new product, , this next Thursday. And it is a collaboration with Courtney Dauwalter. , and it’s called Dauwalter Melon, and it’s a watermelon and lime endurance fuel flavor, that we’re super excited about. , we’ve received. Fantastic feedback. And what was really exciting was just collaborating with Courtney.

So this was the flavor that she chose. , she helped tweak the flavor, dial it in. , she’s gonna be using it at Western states and at Hard Rock. , so we’re super excited about it. , so that’s, that’s what’s, , that’s what’s new and coming. , and then there’s some other little secrets coming down the road as well that hopefully we’ll be ready in October.

So,

Richard Conner: Well, I’m looking forward to all of it. Thank you so much for sharing that, Jenny. I’m really excited about, you know, what’s to come and. Really grateful for what you you’re making today, and it’s, again, it’s helped me [00:29:00] personally in my own journey, and I’m sure many others. But, you know, sharing this information with our listeners, if they’re not taking, you know, proper high nutrition today for their trainings and for their races, this is a great option for them and really excited to share this with them.

So Jenny, how can our listeners find Tailwind Nutrition and follow your journey online?

Jenny Vierling: Yeah, so we’re available in a lot of specialty stores. , in addition to REI, , you can also find us on our website, tailwind nutrition.com, and then just to, you know, learn more about our company and who we are and, , and what we do. You can follow our social media. We are, um, uh, Instagram. Tailwind Nutrition, and then also Facebook Tailwind Nutrition.

So we’re pretty easy to find, , and we hope that you’ll join us on this journey. It’s been an incredible one so far, and we’re really looking forward to, to what happens next. , and we love sharing what we do with, with everyone who’s with everyone and anyone who’s interested. So, um, please join us on this journey.

[00:30:00] It’s been an amazing one so far.

Richard Conner: Great. Thank you so much. Much Jenny, thank you for taking the time to come on the show. Uh, and you know, again, we’ll be looking forward to what’s coming next in the next, uh, couple of weeks at month. So with that, thanks again and have a great day.

Jenny Vierling: Okay, thanks. You too. Bye.